Edward Luce On America's Self-Harm

Ed is the US national editor and columnist at the Financial Times. Before that, he was the FT’s Washington Bureau chief, the South Asia bureau chief, Capital Markets editor, and Philippines correspondent. During the Clinton administration, he was the speechwriter for Larry Summers. The author of many books, his latest is Zbig: The Life and Times of Brzezinski, America’s Great Power Prophet.

For two clips of our convo — on how China played Trump on rare minerals, and Europe’s bind over Russian energy — head to our YouTube page.

Other topics: growing up in West Sussex near my hometown; the international appeal of English boarding schools; the gerontocracy of the USSR; Ed making a beeline to the Berlin Wall as it fell; Fukuyama’s The End of History; Brzezinski’s The Grand Failure — of Communism; enthusiasm for free markets after the Cold War; George Kennan warning against Ukraine independence; HW Bush and the Persian Gulf; climate change and migration; a population boom in Africa; W Bush tolerating autocracy in the war on terrorism; Trump tearing up his own NAFTA deal; the resurgence of US isolationism; the collapsing security umbrella in Europe leading to more self-reliance; Germany’s flagging economy; the China threat; Taiwan’s chips; TACO on tariffs; the clean energy cuts in OBBBA; the abundance agenda; national debt and Bowles-Simpson; the overrated Tony Blair; Liz Truss’ “epic Dunning-Kruger”; Boris killing the Tory Party; the surprising success of Mark Carney; Biden’s mediocrity; Bernie’s appeal; and the Rest catching up with the West.

Browse the Dishcast archive for an episode you might enjoy (the first 102 are free in their entirety — subscribe to get everything else). Coming up: Tara Zahra on the revolt against globalization after WWI, Scott Anderson on the Iranian Revolution, Shannon Minter debating trans issues, Thomas Mallon on the AIDS crisis, and Johann Hari turning the tables to interview me. Please send any guest recs, dissents, and other comments to dish@andrewsullivan.com.

From a fan of last week’s pod:

Thank you for the great interview with Walter Isaacson on Ben Franklin.

FYI, I know you’re a DC local, so if you’re looking for a wonderful exhibit on the Revolutionary War — and the best, IMO — for the 250th, please drop by the National Museum of the US Army. We recently just opened a 5,000 sq. ft. exhibit on the Continental Army’s 250th birthday that features nearly 300 artifacts attributed to soldiers who fought in the war. While the focus of the exhibit is on the enlisted soldier, you will find Washington’s battle sword, Hamilton’s epaulet, an original 1771 redcoat (on loan from London), and the sword surrendered at the Siege of Yorktown, among dozens of priceless artifacts together for the first and likely only time.

We were also recently featured on CBS Sunday Morning:

Washington’s battle sword? Here’s a listener on two recent episodes:

Apologies for not writing earlier about Batya Ungar-Sargon discussing mikvah, as I had planned to. (I see that many others have responded to the episode; you certainly brought out … feelings.) I tried several times in email drafts to expand on what I was getting at regarding mikvah and “impurity” and such, but each time I read it back and thought, “That’s not what I meant at all.”

So it was hashgacha pratis (Divine oversight) that I listened this afternoon to your wonderful interview with Paul Elie. As a chassidic woman, I love listening to you discuss your very personal experience of Catholicism. My own observance gives me an understanding that those who do not lead a faith-based life might struggle with. We speak a similar language.

The main, and I believe most misunderstood, part of Judaism is the fact that its actual practice takes place most of all in the home. The home, not the synagogue, is called a mikdash me’at — a small sanctuary — and the focus is on uplifting the mundane, whereas both the church and the synagogue are experienced as stepping outside the mundane. Inspiring, of course — as Andy Warhol must have felt even during his five minutes of Mass — but in Judaism, that’s not where the action is. Instead: I say a blessing when I awaken and recognize that I have been given another day of life. There are blessings before and after food and drink, and which blessing depends on what you’re consuming, which means attention must be paid. There’s even a blessing after going to the bathroom.

Judaism is an extremely conscious practice. It’s the original “gratitude journal.” My blessings in my robe, in my kitchen, matter just as much as those of a man standing in a synagogue in Tefillin. Whether from a prayer book or not, blessings fill my day, slotted between emails and teenagers.

Mikvah — or more correctly phrased, Taharas HaMishpacha (the laws of family purity) — exists within a continuum of daily life as a Jew. We do not set aside the physical relationship between husband and wife half the month as some out-of-the-box thing. We set aside many things: kosher from unkosher foods, meat from milk, the Sabbath from the weekday, words of Torah from unclean spaces, our less-clothed bodies from the public eye. Each one is an expression of our relationship with Gd by following His commandments, and amongst these, the relationship of husband and wife is the holiest expression — the one that mirrors that between Gd and man.

In the story of the accused adulteress in the Book of Numbers, the test of whether the woman is guilty involves the Priest writing the name of Gd on a piece of paper and erasing it, mixing the erased ink into water which the woman drinks. If she is guilty, she dies from the water. (Fun fact: the Talmud reports that no woman was ever “found guilty” in this process.) What is important here is that this is the only circumstance in which one is permitted to erase the name of Gd.

Why here? Because proving the woman’s innocence, and thus repairing the marital relationship, is even more important than the physical manifestation of Gd’s name. As Jews, we aim to constantly strengthen our relationship to Gd; as a married couple, to each other.

So a woman menstruating is not a sign of impurity. The blood is a recognition that the possibility of a new life didn’t occur that month, and we withdraw a bit to note and honor the workings of our body. Gd said “not right now,” and we accept that, whether it was our preferred answer or not. It is its own form of prayer, a time of closeness to Gd.

I was especially interested by the fact that you asked Batya if this was a Jewish version of birth control. The answer is: quite the opposite. Mikvah night usually falls around ovulation. This goes a ways to explaining our high birth rate; we are almost always intimate on or around our ovulation. We are rarely pregnant “by accident” (though birth control is allowed and sometimes very much encouraged). The goal, always, is for the husband and wife to be able to physically, intimately reunite, with or without birth control.

Yes, it is a time of a physical break from intimacy, but we are also taught that it is a time to cultivate other forms of intimacy: sit and schmooze, learn some Torah together (a beautiful thing for a couple to do), take a drive, go to a concert. When you don’t have the option of “make-up sex,” you need to find other ways to connect. Connection builds strength, and it builds a home. It builds emotionally confident children. It builds a life together, and it builds a mikdash me’at — a small sanctuary of Gd’s holiness in the world.

I’m logging off for Shabbos. Have a great weekend!

That’s a beautiful evocation of Judaism. Thank you. Here’s a lapsed Catholic re-upping a pod we did in 2022:

Despite 10 years of Catholic school as a young child, I lost my religion in high school and became enamored with the secular life. It has really been only you that kept that Catholic consciousness alive in me throughout the intervening period. Now I am a mother of two and feel a sense of confusion and helplessness in what stories to give them about how and why we should behave this way and not that.

I happened to read The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self by Carl Trueman. I figured you must have interviewed him, which of course you did, thankfully.

I went back to that interview and realized that I hadn’t fully grasped how Alasdair MacIntyre fit into Trueman’s arguments. So I started reading After Virtue, and I was reminded of the feeling of losing religion while listening but this time shedding some of the secular cloud I’ve been living in. I think for me it will be one of those books that never really leaves you.

My background, my journey, my kids, and MacIntyre have led me back around to the church. It remains to be seen just how much I delve into the claims of the religion itself, but for now it seems clear to me that Jesus is the best example we have of a good human life.

With all of that, and given MacIntyre’s recent death, I wonder if you could have someone to talk about his theories, journey, and quest to understand virtues. I think you would be best placed to do it, especially for your secular listeners.

After Virtue is a book that never leaves you, in my opinion, because it reads like a revelation of something you already knew. But it’s so dark in its prognosis of our social condition, it is hard to live with or construct a politics on top of — which doesn’t become mere reactionism. I should re-read my tattered copy, but I’ve got a lot on my plate right now. Here’s a specific guest rec:

I think a young principled MAGA disillusioned with Trump — but not having transformed into a lib — would a more productive conversation than someone like Batya, who genuinely seemed like a Trump spokesperson. I have been impressed by Saagar Enjeti — an immigration hawk who supports raids, but also denounces illegal deportations and military deployment on the streets. He’s also been consistent on foreign policy across administrations: defending Biden’s withdrawal from Afghanistan, denouncing Trump on Iran. Considering MAGA is such a cult, it’s interesting to see people demonstrate some consistency, so I’d love to see Enjeti on the Dishcast.

Good idea. Last week, by the way, I joined John Heilemann on his pod, talking about Trump’s monarchal second term:

A reader writes:

I wrote you last week regarding the episode with Batya, and I’m not in the habit of writing to podcasters, etc, but here I am again! This time to say absolutely brilliant op-ed in the NYT on the LGBT … issue. I feel EXACTLY the same way, and you hit every single point. Thank you, thank you.

Win some; lose some. But the readers we treasure the most love and hate the opinions here. Here, by the way, is a brilliant mini-manifesto I saw on Substack Notes this week. It’s also an eloquent mini-history:

Gay rights “happened” not just in a moment or because of an “uprising”. The right to live openly and freely as a gay man came because gay men and women chose to live their lives openly , not relying on the government to give them permission. It happened to me and my partner in the early 80’s. We just lived our lives. And when those small challenges came, like confusion or derision when checking into a hotel and requesting one bed, we just dealt with it as a consumer , not as a gay man. A single bed was what we wanted and a single bed was what we would have. It’s about getting what you want , not about getting permission to have what you want.

And the monolithic LGBTQ identity always chafed at my independence. I have as much in common with any lesbian, bi, trans, or queer person, as I might with ANY person. It’s nonsense . It’s like saying “the butcher , the baker, the candlestick maker”. BBCM. A new voting block,

Many gay people express gender experimentation as children. Maybe to a greater degree than their heterosexual counterparts. But because a boy likes dolls more than football does not make you female. I would have been a prime candidate for “reassignment “ had I grown up in the current climate, rather than in the 70s as I did. It’s hard to grow up gay. But I did, and I love being a man. I still love fashion and skincare , but those are adult things that I retained. Because I’ve always been the same individual, the same unique person, that I’ve always been. Everyone is different and that includes gay people .

So please let’s stop the sexualization of children. It’s not for adults to become involved with a child’s natural experimentation with gender roles. It’s a normal and natural expression of individuality, not of membership in an adult acronym that is based on a herd mentality. Herds move as one. They can be led, they can be trapped, they can be separated from their natural environment. Individuals move freely and are harder to catch and control. So. I’d rather be a wolf than a sheep. I’m harder to catch and control.

The point of the gay rights movement, as I’ve said many times, is not to empower people to be gay; but to empower people to be themselves. The goal is enhanced individuality; not collective consciousness of eternal “oppression.”

Here’s a dissent over my latest column, “The Consequences of Israe’s Hegemony”:

Almost two years ago, you wrote about the importance of the phrase, “Yes, but...” when it came to holding nuance and governing in a liberal democracy. I find that when it comes to adopting a view on Israel as it exists today, “Yes, but...” is the perfect framing. I urge you to practice what you preach and consider some of the more obvious “buts” that you elide in your piece.